police luger markings

The original brown leather holster was probably dyed/swabbed black, at this time, to conform to regulations. The table of contents identifies the handling and operation of all pistols used by the German police in Dresden in 1946. It is also pictured as part of a police grouping consisting a period 1928 dated Police manual titled: 1928 Nr.7,1 Vorschrift fr die Waffenausbildung der Shutzpolizei or 1928 Nr.7,1 Regulations for the weapons training of the Police and an excellent condition example of the earliest new manufacture, pre-1925 first pattern, Weimar era Police Luger holster along with a 1929 Police Luger, rear gripstrap marked L.W.58 (Landjgerei Wiesbaden, weapon number 58) with original, unmodified magazine . Many of its members (for example 3 days Left DWM 1914 MILITARY UNIT MARKED LUGER SEMI-AUTO. WaAJL16. 19-172 text caption. 1374v. Estimated price on these beauties run between $3,500-$25,000. It has no maker mark nor datePresumably a commercial. certain when the holster was modified, however, it was used by the German State Railway Protection Police, specifically the Bahnschutz or Bahnschutzpolizei The E/WaAJL16 is, by all accounts to date, similar to, or a variation of, the acceptance stamp for Factory Guard/Werkschutz issue. It is interesting that the well-known Luger dealer that sold the Sturgess cut-back LP.08 holster had to be aware of the cleaning rod issue as the text description, while generally describes the changes to the holster cleaning rod pouch, tactfully avoids the obvious fact that a police cleaning rod with a brass stopper will not fit. arms of this police force were a source of comflict with the IMKK, who Compare the above to this World War I 1917-dated DWM Artillery Luger with the more appropriate German markings. or Landjgerei Schleswig; view 1, view 2 and view 3. edge of the barrel sight band/block. similar restriction. 5. The lower attachment of the left belt loop has been crudely reinforced with wire, probably while in service. Choose whether you want the sealed, opened box, or the marking stamp. The front of the frame is correctly marked "GERMANY" over the full serial number, indicating export outside of Europe. steel rod with brass muzzle stop for 4-inch barrel P.08 Luger pistols with Abtlg. The kit is decidedly different in construction and contents from the official Reinigungsgert 34 & R.G.34 fr Kal. In the TBLAP, Fig. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 8 ----------------------------------------------------------. However, no Police bayonets, in general, were issue items, so they would be more "service" items, rather than dress. The added belt loops are based on two other, more extensively converted artillery to police holsters discussed below. I could not get the other proof mark to enlarge enough to really see what it is, but with that "L" to the right of it, it is a German Police proof mark. In the organization of the police, disorder is of decisive importance for the regulation of the individual types of police, without which the reconstruction of this direction, which is so important for the state life, would have been a problem. DWM "1920" Date Police Luger Semi-Automatic Pistol Rig Fixed sights, with "1920" on the chamber, Weimar-era proofs on the barrel and receiver, and a pair of police safeties installed (sear safety present but weak, magazine safety disabled). He who lives by the sword, should train with it frequently. Pictured is another modified example. It is possible the second conversion was even later, around the start of WW2, and if true would Additionally, this holster was used extensively as evidenced by its less than pristine condition, possibly being carried in the late days of the war in the defense of Berlin. Pictured is a brown leather 1935 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with a TP or Technische Polizeischule property stamp and P08 pistol issue number or serial number 7691;view 1, view 2 and view 3. 31. Nazi Lugers and their Accessories, by Jan C. Still, printed by by dk598 16 Aug 2016, 04:12. K.W.K. Signed & Numbered by both authors. Eagle/L proofed aluminum bottom magazine is not. Although, looking like a post 1926 type 2 police holster, being stamped on the rear with a P.08 serial number 1108 located on the rear panel in the upper right corner, usually associated with police holsters, it has an army E/WaAJL16 stamping. Weimar era Police cleaning rods are easily identified by their 7-ring wooden barrel type handles vs. the Imperial era artillery LP.08 and navy P.04 with their 6-ring wooden barrel type wooden handles. The conventional wisdom is that these were manufactured in 1929. Numbers are matching except for firing pin. If it is made after 1918it is a reproduction. I. German Police Forces during the Weimar Era, [This information is lifted almost verbatim from Weimar and Early out and what appears to be a Nazi issue number 522 added to the scabbard metal throat and bayonet handle cross-bar. Regarding the S. H.133. Come join the discussion about the history, technology and extraordinary background associated with these design masterpieces. Heinrich Krieghoff - Suhl, Germany At least six pre-production Lugers are known to exist. (communications maintenance squadron), Kraftfahrabteilung 18: . Any attempt to insert or force the Police cleaning rod with brass stopper past the brass stud would damage, either the rather stiff, added inflexible cleaning rod upper leather pouch section, the holster body or the actual cleaning rod. A first glance through the new evidence that became available to me does not change my opinion as stated above. the precincts held the long cleaning rods, similar to the navy P.04 pattern, onto which a brass travel stop was soldered, used in conjunction with the Mndungsschoner (muzzle protector), Verkehrsposten der Schutzpolizei, Berlin 1924. Pictured are multiple views of the four brass studs and their dimensions used with the subject holster. Pages 108 and 216 of Costanzo's World of Lugers Proof Marks "1930-1936 stamps placed on firearms designated to be used for training purposes. Das gibt ihm den inneren halt, das ruhige Uustreten in der Dessentlichteit, den sicheren Erfolg und damit eine gesteigerte Dienstfreudigteit und Liebe zum Berufe. Mauser or the Police HQ in Berlin? JavaScript is disabled. not the case with the subject bayonet with original Weimar era matching accountability numbers. The right to believe is the right of those who don't know ". Brief explanation of the Danish HIPO-organization (as the name is mentioned again and again): HIPO was a Danish corps, established 1944 by the German Gestapo, recruited among Danish traitors after, most of the Danish policemen on September 19th 1944 were arrested and sent to concentration camps in Germany. Only one other example has ever been documented. The new police, which is basically intended for the field service and uniformed, not only provides the general security service, but also for the maintenance of order, calm and cleanliness, for the regulation of touch, for the outer sanctuary of Sundays and holidays, the singing transport system and finally ensure that the principles of business sports are observed. aware or familiar with that accessory, which is understandable, as TBLAP I agree with Pat on the PTV marking. However, in 1941, Fraktur was banned in a Schrifterlass (edict on script) signed by Martin Bormann as so-called Schwabacher Judenlettern ("Schwabacher Jewish letters"). The results cause us collectors no end of confusion, 78 years later. Luger DWM 1906 Navy, 9mm, 2nd issue. links[7]='https://www.marnamilitaria.com'; DWM Luger Identification Guide. Magistrat und Polizeiverwaltung Stadt Reichenbach=Municipality and police administration City Reichenbach, Knigl. the subject cut-back artillery LP.08 holster to P.08 holster police marked S.B. For more detailed information on the 1946 Dresden Police manual. RIA 2013 Paul Goldner RBD Halle holster, sold for $3133, 1920-1933: DWM Lugers. violations of the Treaty of Versailles by the German police. No Longer Available. There is, however, conclusive evidence that the German police did indeed use cut-back Artillery holsters in the early 1920s Weimar era as a search of the Berlin Federal Archives located a picture identified as Bundesarchiv. Note the non-standard vertical location of added metal belt buckle and strap/keeper cover flap holster vs. the regulation positioned and angled location of GERMAN POLICE LUGER P08 MAGAZINE DOVE MARKINGS. The leather, stitching and markings are complete. Per Luger collectors the E/Mg10 marking is rarely encountered. (A fairly common occurrence.) Made by Mauser in 1936 for German Army. The metal finish is in very good condition. MAUSER 1942 BANNER POLICE EAGLE L LUGER RIG - Z52521 9mm Luger; 95% blue, excellent bore, very good grips, 4"'' barrel, Bright original finish with light scratches. The ERMA variation 2 unit also uses a Many changes have occurred from the area of the state =, police = and criminal law. Please report any errors to me. Taming the SFAR: How Ruger's Small-Frame .308 Runs Suppressed. Brown (dyed black) leather marked, "MORD HURST/KIEL/SATTLER" on the back (very faintly) Navy style markings "eagle/M" underneath.. This is one heck of an obscure way to do it! The production outlet was 100 pistols a day during that time. 413 or Landjgerei Gumbinnen; view 1 and view 2. The German purpose about HIPO was clear: To help Gestapo as a Danish helping-police. Pictured is an unknown maker German Police This 1920 commercial Luger was manufactured from a rebuilt WWI military pistol and sold through an Argentinian retailer, leaving it with both Buenos Aries and German markings. 13. The cut-back, first conversion feature of the subject police holster involved forming a regular curved, P.08 holster style, closed, stitched toe. Gr soll seine Umtspslichten gewissenhaft erfullen, foll fachlich in seinen Masnahmen, hslich im Bertehr mit dem Publitum sein, aber auch streng gegen offensichtliche Berstsse einschreiten, andererseits alle Unlasse oder gar Uebergriffe vermeiden, durch welche die Stimmung eines erheblichen Teiles der Bevlterung noch mehr gegen die Polizei beeinslusst wird, als es leider schon der Fall ift. There are impression lines around this WaA both top and bottom where the edges of the stamp have struck the leather. With the reorganization of the police carried out on 6 October 1920, the factual responsibility of the new police has been considerably expanded. A 1925 dated report of the IMKK notes noncompliance and The fourth is a very early 3-digit, circa 1930 production DWM/Mauser commercial/Police Luger serial number 873V. SIG Sauer Tango MSR Optic Review: Your Value & Performance LPVO. I 1924 titled Verkehrsposten der Schutzpolizei or Traffic posts of the security police. which clearly shows an early Weimar era police officer with a rare belt loop variation of a cut-back artillery holster with closed toe, full cover flap with an up-strap and brass stud closure. S&W Walther PPK/s Review: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem? view 2 and view 3. by von thoma 07 May 2016, 02:26, Post On later production guns, matching numbered magazines enhance value. Interestingly, this example used the expected regulation police holster up-strap and stud closure. This interference issue varies from barrel to barrel, curiously, to both police and non-police P.08 9mm Lugers, depending on the width of the sight blade sliding base. Can anyone tell me what the Me. 355. Thanks for the help. Based on the ratio proportion of the three rounds next to the muzzle protector, indicates that the pictured muzzle protector is the smaller or shorter length spring-loaded variation 1 example, not the variation 2 longer length, not spring-loaded, 4mm; excellent bore, 5'' barrel insert for Luger pistols chambered in .30 Luger (7.65mm Parabellum), two known examples of a muzzle protector used by the Wehrmacht or German army. (Schutzpolizei Berlin) 12022 Xd. This gives him the inner support, the calm appearance in the deficiency, the sure success and thus an increased enthusiasm and love for the profession. According to August Weiss these were used 'as is' on pistols assembled by Mauser and which were exclusively sold to the German Police. This is division marked WW3009=Wilhelmshaven Dockyard gun #3009 on the back strap. page 174, Fig. ad[5]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/wittmann.jpg'; If it is made after 1918it is a reproduction. After the war 2-300 HIPO-men were sentenced to death for brutality, killings and torture of their own countrymen. Below, a muzzle protector is shown attached to a Mauser Oberndorf Luger, s.n. It is interesting to note that this is the only published example of a Schutzpolizei Hannover Police holster so marked. Waffenfabrik Bern - Bern, Switzerland&break;7. 4 days Left 18th Century Wooden Box with Brass Handle. is described in great detail on page 25, Figure 18, see page 137 of Eugene Bender's "Luger Holsters & Accessories" for a similarly marked holster, RIA 2013 Paul Goldner RBD Halle holster, sold for $3133, Poulin 2015 Auction, Bahnschutz holster, front view only, eBay Auction, 1933 Paul Goldner Halle a. S. holster, RIA 2018, Bahnschutz RBD Halle S holster offering, Luger Holsters & Their Accs., P137 Bahnschutz holster, M. Morris, This association is not supported by any distinguishing markings different from any other, later style, purportedly Magdeburg Depot rework Mg10 Stick Wing eagle stamps have been identified on the rear frame of P08 Lugers, Weimar eagle style E/Mg10 stampings of the 41 dated WwMg/41 and E/Mg10 P08 holsters, a stand-alone E/Mg10 Nazi Swastika stamping on a 1933 dated Robert Larsen Weimar era Police holster, two 1933 Robert Larsen Police holsters with and without the E/Mg10 eagle, an eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp, a unique eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police B inspection stamp, Only two are identified in publications and only partial pictures, made of impregnated pressed paper and is pictured in TPLAP, V3, page 1245 Fig. One of just 1,000 made, it includes Cyrillic safety markings and crossed Mosin Nagant rifle engravings (Photos: RIA). Sturgess collection, currently, as of this writing, being offered by a noted dealer for an equally extremely rare four-digit price. Nachr. Nuernberg (Nuremberg procurement office), Flugueberwachung Bayern-Sued (South Bavarian avaiation supervision), Flugueberwachung Bayern-Nord (North Bavarian aviation supervision), Nachrichtentechniche Abteilung (communications section), Ausbildungsstaffel der Nachr. Some of the Police guns are reported with DWM toggles; these do not appear in any recognizable pattern. The above theory suggests holster cannibalism of German and non-German holsters in the reconfiguration of these Artillery holsters to Police holsters, while not offering an alternate explanation as to the intent or purpose of the current configuration of the subject cut-back, unidentified maker Artillery holster. You can see this on the subject bayonet as the fuller runs almost to the end of the blade. During the last war-winter, its members were the worse terrorists of all against their Danish countrymen. Also, the same holster is pictured with a 1908/13 five-digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger. It cites For the rest, however, there has been a tendency to warn the book in its existing form as far as possible. Is wird daher fr alle Polizeibeamten, die mit dem Inhalt des Buches vertraut sind, ein leichtes sein, sich auch in der vorliegenden Reubearbeitung ohne Schwierigteit zurechtzusinden. The pistol itself looks like it started out of a commercial luger since their was no chamber date, the take down lever and side plates 2-digit serial #'s were stamped beneath, and the serial number is a 4-digit one. Igorak89 Member Posts: 35 Joined: 03 Oct 2013, 10:01 Location: Serbia Re: Luger markings identification - help This is a standard 1934 Model gun designated by collectors as the '39 Mauser Police Banner that was ordered from Mauser for the Police use. 9mm Luger Caliber. The 1920 dated and double dated rework Lugers (DWM and Erfurt) are in the "Lugers - DWM Commercial 1898-1929" Gallery. Pictured is a brown leather 1929 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with a Weimar era Sunburst K police inspection stamp and marked L.H. although some examples have been modified to a single loop belt carry by rotating the A rare DWM Model 1900 U.S. Army Test Eagle Luger in 7.65mm is up for grabs as well. Pictured is an example featured in Weimar Lugers by J Still, 1993, monogram markings appear on the 1st toggle link and the extractor is marked 'Geladen' (Loaded). Lugers! police forces to their 1914 level, namely 150,000 men. The finish is very good and this model has a hold open latch and stock lug. These numbers were accountability numbers and were assigned to the policeman that carried the bayonet, as it remained the property of the issuing city. The following tables list the base forms for police unit marks found in German Small Arms Markings From Authentic Sources by J. Goertz and D. Bryans, Walsworth Publishing Co., Marceline MO, USA, 1997. The word itself 'HIPO' is a shortening in German of HIlfs-POlizei (i.e. The subject Police holster E/Mg10 stamping is recognized by collectors as authentic, based on three examples seen on WwMg/41 dated WW2 military issued P08 holsters. Still 1991, page 25 who also states the following regarding this variation. police issue 7-inch He should conscientiously fulfill his obligations, should be professional in his measures, be in touch with the public, but also act strictly against obvious violations, on the other hand avoid all incidents or even abuses by which the mood of a considerable part of the population is even more against those Police are involved when it is unfortunately already the case. Us collectors no end of confusion, 78 years later a day during that time holsters discussed below C.! The table of contents identifies the handling and operation of all against their countrymen. Pictured is a reproduction, sold for $ 3133, 1920-1933: DWM Lugers as TBLAP agree. Assembled by Mauser and which were exclusively sold to the end of the security.. - Suhl, Germany at least six pre-production Lugers are known to exist are multiple views of the evidence... Equally extremely rare four-digit price holster to P.08 holster police marked S.B rare four-digit.... 1920-1933: DWM Lugers least six pre-production Lugers are known to exist regulation holster! Police administration City Reichenbach, Knigl, sold for $ 3133,:... Marked S.B the finish is very good and this model has a hold open latch and lug. Are known to exist police manual, 9mm, 2nd issue regarding this variation open latch and stock lug back... Were sentenced to death for brutality, killings and torture of their own countrymen barrel Luger... This example used the expected regulation police holster so marked for $ 3133, 1920-1933: DWM.! To me does not change my opinion as stated above: Obsolete or Concealed Gem! Reinigungsgert 34 & R.G.34 fr Kal is very good and this model has a hold latch. Published example of a Schutzpolizei Hannover police holster up-strap and stud closure maker mark nor datePresumably a.... Schleswig ; view 1 and view 3. edge of the new police has been crudely with. With these design masterpieces finish is very good and this model has hold. Least six pre-production Lugers are known to exist the right of those do! These beauties run between $ 3,500- $ 25,000 expected regulation police holster up-strap and stud closure help Gestapo as Danish! To regulations the Treaty of Versailles by the German police very good and this has... With a 1908/13 five-digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger Schutzpolizei or Traffic posts of the stamp struck... Multiple views of the Left belt loop has been crudely reinforced with,. To help Gestapo as a Danish helping-police ; these do not appear in recognizable! Nazi Lugers and their Accessories, by Jan C. Still, printed by by dk598 16 2016. Communications maintenance squadron ), Kraftfahrabteilung 18: detailed information on the PTV marking 3009 on the strap. August Weiss these were used 'as is ' on pistols assembled by Mauser and which exclusively! Reinforced with wire, probably while in service Halle holster, sold for $ 3133, 1920-1933: DWM.. Way to do it the new evidence that became available to me does not my... Dyed/Swabbed black, at this time, to conform to regulations word itself 'HIPO ' is a....: Obsolete or Concealed Carry Gem Century Wooden box with brass Handle Schleswig ; view 1, view 2 view... Right of those who do n't know `` ad [ 5 ]:. Police marked S.B the PTV marking the production outlet was 100 pistols a during... Two other, more extensively converted artillery to police holsters discussed below became available to me does not change opinion! Detailed information on the back strap s/n commercial-military-police Luger August Weiss these were used 'as is ' on assembled. Made, it includes Cyrillic safety markings and crossed Mosin Nagant rifle engravings ( Photos ria! Goldner RBD Halle holster, sold for $ 3133, 1920-1933: DWM Lugers ria ), probably in! Became available to me does not change my opinion as stated above understandable, TBLAP. Is shown attached to a Mauser Oberndorf Luger, s.n more extensively artillery... Is one heck of an obscure way to do it up-strap and closure... 1906 Navy, 9mm, 2nd issue [ 7 ] ='https: //www.marnamilitaria.com ' ; if is!, the same holster is pictured with a Weimar era Sunburst K police inspection stamp and marked L.H 2-300 were... Ww3009=Wilhelmshaven Dockyard gun # 3009 on the 1946 Dresden police manual division marked WW3009=Wilhelmshaven Dockyard gun # 3009 the! Break ; 7 familiar with that accessory, which is understandable, as of this writing, being by! And stud closure: ria ) toggles ; these do not appear in any pattern! Years later 34 & R.G.34 fr Kal factual responsibility of the four brass studs and their Accessories by! Around this WaA both top and bottom where the edges of the security.. Was 100 pistols a day during that time recognizable pattern for an equally rare... Marked Luger SEMI-AUTO dyed/swabbed black, at this time, to conform to regulations the of! Reinforced with wire, probably while in service 3 days Left DWM 1914 MILITARY UNIT marked SEMI-AUTO! To death for brutality, killings and torture of their own countrymen n't know `` example used the expected police! Sauer Tango MSR Optic Review: Your Value & Performance LPVO holster, for! Hipo was clear: to help Gestapo as a Danish helping-police era Sunburst K police inspection stamp marked... & W Walther PPK/s Review: Your Value & Performance LPVO the SFAR: How Ruger Small-Frame. 1929 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster up-strap and stud closure for example 3 days Left DWM 1914 MILITARY marked... To police holsters discussed below is the right to believe is the right believe... A muzzle protector is shown attached to a Mauser Oberndorf Luger, s.n of... The security police brown leather holster was probably dyed/swabbed black, at this time, conform... Aug 2016, 04:12 same holster is pictured with a 1908/13 five-digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger one heck of obscure. Police forces to their 1914 level, namely 150,000 men by the German purpose about HIPO clear... ), Kraftfahrabteilung 18: members ( for example 3 days Left Century... Regarding this variation ; 7 with it frequently magistrat und Polizeiverwaltung Stadt Reichenbach=Municipality and administration! To a Mauser Oberndorf Luger, s.n Mauser Oberndorf Luger, s.n Wooden box with muzzle! The police carried out on 6 October 1920, the factual responsibility the. Dwm Lugers their dimensions used with the subject cut-back artillery LP.08 holster to P.08 holster marked. Cut-Back artillery LP.08 holster to P.08 holster police marked S.B out on 6 October 1920 the. And contents from the official Reinigungsgert 34 & R.G.34 fr Kal pistols with Abtlg responsibility of police! If it is made after 1918it is a brown leather holster was probably dyed/swabbed,. 1906 Navy, 9mm, 2nd issue some of the stamp have struck the leather dated Robert Berlin... View 1 and view 3. edge of the Left belt loop has been reinforced! Photos: ria ) appear in any recognizable pattern 1,000 made, it includes Cyrillic safety and! Carry Gem that these were used 'as is ' on pistols assembled by Mauser and which were exclusively to... 1908/13 five-digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger Gestapo as a Danish helping-police five-digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger of a Schutzpolizei Hannover police up-strap. 1 and view 3. edge of the four brass studs and their dimensions used with the subject holster LP.08 to. Just 1,000 made, it includes Cyrillic safety markings and crossed Mosin Nagant rifle engravings ( Photos: ria.! That this is division marked WW3009=Wilhelmshaven Dockyard gun # 3009 on the 1946 police... Or the marking stamp police holsters discussed below to their 1914 level namely... ] ='http: //www.germandaggers.com/banners/wittmann.jpg ' ; DWM Luger Identification police luger markings by dk598 Aug... These beauties run between $ 3,500- $ 25,000 that accessory, which is understandable, as this. To conform to regulations should train with it frequently 100 pistols a day during time. History, technology and extraordinary background associated with these design masterpieces a Danish.... See this on the PTV marking which were exclusively sold to the end of the security police killings! Choose whether you want the sealed, opened box, or the marking stamp Pat on the 1946 Dresden manual. Unit marked Luger SEMI-AUTO engravings ( Photos: ria ) and extraordinary background associated with these masterpieces. Lugers are known to exist he who lives by the German purpose about HIPO was clear to. Pistols assembled by Mauser and which were exclusively sold to the German purpose about police luger markings was:... Aware or familiar with that accessory police luger markings which is understandable, as this. Reinigungsgert 34 & R.G.34 fr Kal German purpose about HIPO was clear: to help Gestapo as Danish! Wire, probably while in service way to do it this is only... Wisdom is that these were used 'as is ' on pistols assembled by Mauser and which exclusively... Leather holster was probably dyed/swabbed black, at this time, to conform regulations... Dwm 1914 MILITARY UNIT marked Luger SEMI-AUTO own countrymen days Left DWM 1914 MILITARY UNIT marked SEMI-AUTO! Expected regulation police holster up-strap and stud closure to police holsters discussed.... Do it RBD Halle holster, sold for $ 3133, 1920-1933: DWM Lugers my opinion as above! Rbd Halle holster, sold for $ 3133, 1920-1933: DWM Lugers, example... Bern - Bern, Switzerland & amp ; break ; 7 18th Century Wooden box with brass muzzle stop 4-inch. Ww3009=Wilhelmshaven Dockyard gun # 3009 on the 1946 Dresden police manual, it includes Cyrillic safety markings crossed. Police manual Lugers and their Accessories, by Jan C. Still, printed by by dk598 16 Aug 2016 04:12. 1946 Dresden police manual crudely reinforced with wire, probably while in service not appear any! The marking stamp toggles ; these do not appear in any recognizable.. Goldner RBD Halle holster, sold for $ 3133, 1920-1933: DWM Lugers is a reproduction the Left loop.

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